Tony Wales
Interview type: General
Done?: No Created time: November 12, 2025 8:08 PM Done: No Seeds: SMART Stories ([link removed]otion.so/SMART-Stories-8d21c8cb4f254e66940f4de792bfdf70?pvs=21)
Tony Wales
Tony Wales: [00:00:00] Tony Wales, W A L E S. Cool. And we can just, yeah, yell into each other so there's no need to worry about the cameras.
Tony, how did you get involved with Smart Recovery? Back in 2007, a friend of mine's friend basically was working for Smart Recovery and she knew that they ran out of money from St Vincent's. They, St Vincent's, had bought out Smart Recovery. And they got a grant of 200, 000. And she looked at my broker and my broker rang me and said, can you help?
So from that point on I suppose I went to, I'd never heard of Smart Recovery at all. I didn't know Josette, who came to see me. And I went and met with, one of the founders in Boston, just to check it all out and see what it was and what they did. And he convinced me that it was worthwhile.
And [00:01:00] I thought it was worthwhile and truly. So I spoke to my wife and we decided to put half a million dollars into it for two years and took it out of St. Vincent's Hospital, decided to set up a not for profit at that point in time. Yeah, and we went from there. I had a partner, it's a chartered accountant at the state, at that point in time.
And we just ran it along. But that's, yeah, it was just that nobody supports drug and alcohol. Nobody. We couldn't get, they couldn't get funding anywhere along the line. We decided that we could do that and went from there. What did Smart Recovery look like 20 years ago? Smart Recovery looked like It had two employees.
It came out of St Vincent's. It was within their drug and alcohol area. But these employees were just They were They got it from AOD. They got a Sorry. Anyway, they got their funding and [00:02:00] they tried to they put a program into the jails, into the corrective services, and from there, that took off and that's, they were servicing that, what they wanted was to have smart recovery outside the jail, the corrective services, so that they could, when the participants came out, they had somewhere to go so it was only very small, it was all face to face.
And I suppose we had problems in trying to spread. So it was very small but very active. They worked very well. Two people, Jim Villamore and Joseph Freeman. Because basically all there was for people was the 12 steps. There was no, and 12 step was has a definite, but, modus operanda.[00:03:00]
And SMART provided the tools we thought to Make people not feel as if they're an addict for life. Not, give them the tools to get over it. And that appealed to us. It was very different from what was out there in the open place. What were the hopes and dreams back then? Is it tapping alright?
Your mic is not on there just for a moment. Sorry, that's alright. We're picking up these questions in there. What were some of the hopes and dreams 20 years ago when when you're talking to Josette and the crew what are they? Yeah, just basic, basically just to put it out there, to fund it, get it get the meetings going.
And then train facilitators so that we could spread the word. And that, that's all we could really concentrate on. Yeah. And as it grew and as they trained more facilitators, we were able to grow it a lot more. And that was what we were trying to achieve and we did it, basically. [00:04:00] What were some of the challenges in the early days, like in addition to what you've mentioned?
The challenges, like you can talk early days because we did, we took it in 2007 and really we didn't move it that far. greatly until to 2013, but those challenges I suppose were just funding and making people aware that smart recovery is there and it is a tool and it is a, is there for people to attend.
Now over 350 sessions happen each week, like looking back. 20 years on what do you think of what Smart Recovery and what you've been able to achieve? Yeah, I think with that growth, I think it's been great. It was, once, once we got it going and we appointed a CEO, Ryan McLaughlin, and then we appointed a board, it, it pushed it out and got it going.
Now we've got two, we've had two boards, two great CEOs, and it's [00:05:00] really humming. When I look at it now, it's just, I think COVID was very good to us in one way. It's unusually, it stopped the face to face, and it wasn't probably good for participants as well as it was before, but it forced people into being educated into online meetings, online facilitators.
It gave us, we got a great grant from the government, 500, 000, no, more. Anyway, we got a grant from the government to fund the development and that excuse me, that allowed us to transpose into online. And now, what we always wanted, and what we always worried about was Looking after our facilitators, when they're away, like you teach them something, and then you say, alright, out you go and do it.
And that's, to me, I couldn't do that. But, anyway, the [00:06:00] online gave us access to them. And then it gave us access worldwide, or Australia wide. It just it's amazing. Yeah, does that answer your question? Yeah, what have been some of the other milestones? You mentioned COVID, but like over the last 20 years, have there been some significant moments that have jumped out to you?
No, I think, as I said, 2013, when we hired Brian and then the CEO, and then we formed that board, that was very significant, because then it could work for itself. It wasn't being pushed by just myself, Joette and Jim left anyway, and that's why we got the CEO. We decided that was the time.
If we're going to do it, we've gotta do it properly. So we plowed more money into it and got that and it, I think that was most probably the most significant thing. Then covid it just. Just being able to get out there Josette went up in, up into [00:07:00] Darwin and, and this is, we've only got two employees at this stage, remember, and she's trying to cover all of Australia.
So the other significant part was, we got the Partnerships. So we were able to form partnerships. And they were able to take the load off, and we'd teach them. And that was very significant in the increase. And then along came COVID.
Talk me through Josette as a founder. You obviously gravitated to her vision and her passion for this space. Yeah for me who I didn't know anything about drugs or alcohol or AA, or I knew it existed sort of thing. Josette was a wonderful person. She was able to drive. She had a, had that drive in her that sort of told us where we should be going and what we should be doing.
She she was with us, what, 18 years, I think, or something like that, before she [00:08:00] passed. And she was, yeah. Passionate, passionate about smart recovery. She could run a meeting, she could always explain a meeting, and it was just good to go and listen to her. Yeah, she was fantastic. What what do you think the legacy of Smart Recovery is in Australia these days?
The legacy, sorry, Nick. Like how do you think people it has such an impact every day. What how would people perceive smart recovery out in the community? What's your hopes? Yeah it is an alternative. It's a, it gives the people the option to be able to attend a meeting that they've got control of.
They can work their own theories or what they want to do. It gives them the tools to be able to. fight their addiction. It doesn't matter, it doesn't have to be drug and alcohol. It can be smoking or eating or whatever. And they all go to the same class. But it's there for people that want it.
And that's what we wanted it to do. We wanted to get it [00:09:00] out there so that anybody would be able to go and attend a meeting of Smart Recovery. And hopefully fight their addiction and be free from addiction. How I guess you've been a trailblazer, like you said, in investing or supporting something like this.
Like how important is it for supporters to contribute to organisations like Smart Recovery? Not for profit, the industry is just so lacking in funds and people supplying funds. It's very important that, it continues and the people that are there have got assurance that there is a future for them.
Sorry, just a moment there. These lights are on motion sensors, I've got an office with them and all of a sudden you've got to run up and bang it. Are you getting that Ben? Yep. Thank [00:10:00] you.
So why is support important to organisations like SMART? Because without the support they wouldn't exist basically, it's
yeah, I don't think I can say much else, they need the support, they need the certainty of being able to do their work and do it greatly, they don't work for a lot of money we ran it on the smell of an oily rag as they say. But to support them and get them moving and know that motivation is there it's very important.
All not for profits are the same. I didn't have the second camera. That's fine. So you have one? Yeah, that's fine. Thank you. What's the, what would you say to other people wanting to support Smart Recovery? Like, why should they support or why do you support? Yeah, I think people should support it because the funding from the government was non existent.
It was, and it's so spasmodic. [00:11:00] Smart recovery needs that, that impetus needs the people behind it, and it, and they should, it, it gives people, it does so much good for people. No one wants to have an addiction. If you've got an addiction, the hardest thing to do, I think, is to recognise that you've got one.
And then come to a SMART recovery or go to a recovery meeting. It's imperative that happens. What are your hopes and dreams for SMART recovery in the future? I'm sure you could never have imagined it getting to this point. Today or maybe you did have that vision, but what's your no, I did not I just want to see Like smart i'm i've now moved on to smart recovery international and now we've been able to support